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Are these traditions outdated?
Yes! 23%  23%  [ 32 ]
Meh, it's just tradition. 11%  11%  [ 16 ]
No, keep them all! 6%  6%  [ 8 ]
Some can stay and some can go 16%  16%  [ 23 ]
Food 44%  44%  [ 61 ]
Total votes : 140
 Post subject: Sexism and (Christian/Western) Wedding Traditions
Post Posted: Dec 23rd, '13, 01:05    


Sierrie
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A lot of wedding traditions are rooted in sexism, or sexist ways of thinking. At least for Christian/Western culture style weddings... I don't know much about traditions in other parts of the world. I'll explain a couple of them.

Groom asking the father before the daughter

If it were asking the parents, it would be one thing. But just the father? Why doesn't the bride's mother's opinion matter? And why isn't the bride asking the groom's family for approval? This is rooted in the idea that men get to decide a woman's life. So of course it's the father and the groom that make an agreement about the bride... the opinions of the women are secondary.

The ring

This is the one that upsets me the most. The expectation that a man has to prove his love for a woman by spending several paychecks on a piece of jewelry. The origin of this tradition is basically buying a woman's virginity. Back when guys would promise to marry a woman, then love her and leave her, she'd be considered "damaged goods". So if he spent a chunk of money to prove his loyalty, the woman would know he's not just tricking her to get some action. Of course, that's an incredibly outdated way of thinking. Most people aren't virgins when they get married, and most have had previous sexual partners. Yet diamond industry still shoves this idea onto us that women are materialistic and care only about shiny jewelry (seriously, they make commercials about women dumping men because they don't like the ring). It's insulting to all genders. Why do women not need to make a huge investment to show their love? Why only men? I mean, if you like jewelry and want something to show the world you're married, that's great. But two months of pay for it? That's kinda excessive.

Father 'giving away' the daughter

I think this one's kinda self-explanatory after what I said about the other two. Basically, the dad trusting the care of his daughter to another man. Because men care for women exclusively, never the other way around.

So what do you guys think of these? Is it time for our culture to rethink how we do weddings? Or does the origin of these traditions not matter?

Personally, I won't be doing any of these things when I get married. But I'm not gonna hate on people who do. Weddings are such a personal affair and people's reasons for doing things the way they do will vary a lot. So I don't think anyone would be qualified to judge them for it.

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 Post subject: Re: Sexism and (Christian/Western) Wedding Traditions
Post Posted: Dec 23rd, '13, 01:29    


light_sucks
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YESSSSSSS. So sexist. It drives me INSANE.
And you didn't even hit on all of them. The woman having to take her husband's name, her being in charge of EVERYthing with planning the wedding, men getting a bachelor party as 'one last night of freedom' (yes I realize that women get them too now, but I don't think that you should be getting married if you feel like you're being trapped), so many things.

For me personally:
Groom asking the father before the daughter
I don't have to worry about that. My dad is dead. Even if he wasn't he doesn't OWN me. I decide what happens to MY body, thank you very much!

The ring
I think that people get a bit cray cray over their rings. I want an engagement ring too. But I just want a nice ring that will last forever. Maybe 100-300 bucks. Any more than that is just freaking ridiculous to me.

Father 'giving away' the daughter
I don't belong to anyone but my self. I will not be 'given away' like a prize pig. Fuck that.

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 Post subject: Re: Sexism and (Christian/Western) Wedding Traditions
Post Posted: Dec 23rd, '13, 02:13    


Sierrie
Ah, I knew there was a big one I was forgetting! Yes, I've never been a fan of the name thing either. I like the idea of the couple making a new name, possibly one that's a combination of their names. My boyfriend's on board with that idea too. He doesn't really like his name, since he has the same last name of his dad, who he doesn't get along with. So he was never really keen on the idea of me taking on his name.

And the 'one last night of freedom' mentality is ugh. Some people have such bleak outlooks on marriage in general that I wonder why they're even doing it.

If my boyfriend asked my dad before me, I wouldn't marry him. He knows how I feel about it, so yeah. Any guy I've been with long enough to think of marrying me should know how I feel about it... so yeah, if he does that then I'd have to be seriously questioning our relationship.

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 Post subject: Re: Sexism and (Christian/Western) Wedding Traditions
Post Posted: Dec 23rd, '13, 06:28    


Spica
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People can have weddings however the damn hell way they like their weddings. Its their special day and I'm not gonna ruin it by complaining that it "should" be done one way or the other.

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 Post subject: Re: Sexism and (Christian/Western) Wedding Traditions
Post Posted: Dec 23rd, '13, 09:00    


Sierrie
There's no need to be defensive. Did you read the last paragraph of my post?

My point is that a lot of these traditions do have sexist origins. If you want to keep them alive for the sake of tradition, fine. This thread is about how people personally feel about these traditions and if they want to continue them in their own wedding.

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 Post subject: Re: Sexism and (Christian/Western) Wedding Traditions
Post Posted: Dec 24th, '13, 08:42    


Aerin
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We got married last year, and honestly, we picked what we liked and threw away the rest...
The three things you mention in your first post are already outdated anyway in my country.

My "engagement" ring was one he gave me at the beginning of our relationship, it has just a sentimental value, he never proposed, we just thought about it together, and our parents weren't that much implicated in our wedding planning, because we're both more than 30, have two kids together, and 15 years of relationship together, so it would have been awkward to let them choose anything for us, seeing how already independant we are.

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 Post subject: Re: Sexism and (Christian/Western) Wedding Traditions
Post Posted: Dec 24th, '13, 23:02    


Yorusora
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A wedding is a religious concept.

I think a lot of weddings today forget that; in fact - the bible had SO MUCH about women that if you followed if word-by-word women shouldn't even be allowed to walk around freely.

I think a lot of the marriage traditions have been forgotten anyway, the men don't ask the women's fathers anymore (that I know of) and it's rare for them to do so. I think the Father giving away the bride is more of an emotional thing that a symbolic thing now, it's more because the Father is sad to let her go; she is no longer his 'little-girl'.

I agree that the whole thing is sexist in many ways; but the bible has it written that women are not allowed to talk in church, that they can not wear more than two fabrics and that if a woman cannot divorce a man, even is he has been unfaithful.

I think a lot of the time people getting married don't realize how religious the ceremony is, you're supposed to be wedded under God and all that, but a lot of the time people marry in chrurches because they are pretty.

Well, i'm gay anyway so I can't get married; only have a civil partnership - which I agree with, since homosexuality is against Christianity.

:bat:

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 Post subject: Re: Sexism and (Christian/Western) Wedding Traditions
Post Posted: Dec 25th, '13, 02:28    


GreenHypnosis
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Spica wrote:
People can have weddings however the damn hell way they like their weddings. Its their special day and I'm not gonna ruin it by complaining that it "should" be done one way or the other.


Yea I get that. But I don't think that OP meant to impose on another's wedding. She is discussing with that she doesn't agree with the concept of wedding but hey your wedding, have it your way.


True a wedding is a religious concept. But funny that different religions-traditions seem to have this similar concept of wedding. I am not offering an explanation on why. I seriously don't know XD

The things that irk me most about the tradition:
The woman taking on the husband's family name. and So do their children
The husband asking the father for the daughter's hand in marriage. (If a guy planning to marry me asks my father before asking me, I'm going to tell him to go marry my father)
The man being the one proposing.

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 Post subject: Re: Sexism and (Christian/Western) Wedding Traditions
Post Posted: Dec 25th, '13, 04:49    


Sierrie
Uh... weddings aren't strictly religious, actually. It can be, but it doesn't have to be. I don't plan on getting married in a church or before any god. I'll have a legal document, but no religion will be involved. Marriage predates most modern religions anyway, and I believe it also predates most written history. So it's hard to know if it did stem from religion originally, or if it was a way to establish families and the paternity of a woman's children.

Quote:
Well, i'm gay anyway so I can't get married; only have a civil partnership - which I agree with, since homosexuality is against Christianity.


I feel sorry for you that your religion has villianized your own existence to such an extent. :( Marriage isn't a Christian invention, so I don't know why they think they have the right to control it for everyone else.

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 Post subject: Re: Sexism and (Christian/Western) Wedding Traditions
Post Posted: Dec 25th, '13, 07:48    


light_sucks
Yorusora wrote:
A wedding is a religious concept.
(edited for length)
I think a lot of the time people getting married don't realize how religious the ceremony is, you're supposed to be wedded under God and all that, but a lot of the time people marry in chrurches because they are pretty.

Well, i'm gay anyway so I can't get married; only have a civil partnership - which I agree with, since homosexuality is against Christianity.

:bat:


Saying that every marriage is Christian is saying that every nonreligious marriage ceremony or different religious ceremony is invalid.

Marriages are NOT religious by themselves. Many cultures have them combined with religious elements, but a marriage is basically a business contract. You're saying that you will help and care for this person. You are LEGALLY binding yourself to them.

And saying that an entire group of people can't get married because one or two religions out of hundreds of religions say so is ridiculous!

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